Okanagan Bouldering Spotlight/Interview - No More Mr. Gneiss Guy (V13) - Written by Will Barnes

Okanagan Bouldering Spotlight

PROBLEM: NO MORE MR GNEISS GUY (V13)
FA: ANDY WHITE
LOCATION: THE BOULDERFIELDS, KELOWNA BC

​If there was ever a problem that signified pure, hard bouldering, No More Mr. Gneiss Guy (Gneiss Guy for short) would be it. The beta is simple, sit-start on two decent half pad edges, move right hand to a ¼ pad edge, left to a ¾ pad edge and then the crux: adjust the feet and throw right hand to a pretty good full pad edge. Doesn’t sound too bad, until you try to pull on and realize the wall is 60 degrees overhanging, the key foot for the crux is high and sloping, the edges have no in-cut, and the crux throw is HUGE. There are no other holds to use, and the holds that are there are so clean they could have been etched with a laser. No tricks, no way to break the beta, just one very hard move.

Andy White making the big throw on the crux move of Gneiss Guy. Photo: Andy White

First opened by Andy White back in Aug 2015, Gneiss Guy has gone unrepeated for over three years now, and not for a lack of trying. Although they will remain unnamed, a handful of Canada's strongest climbers have put in concerted efforts on Gneiss Guy and left empty handed, while others have gone to check it out and not even bothered to lace up because of how hard it looks. This ultimately led to a retroactive upgrade of the problem from the original V12 that Andy gave it, and recently there’s been talk that it may be even harder.

Andy has continued to open very hard boulders in the Boulderfields in the years since Gneiss Guy. Yet, with every hard, new boulder developed, he still reflects that they don’t really come close to the difficulty of that single move on Gneiss Guy. Although Gneiss Guy has gained quite a reputation with Okanagan locals, I don’t believe it has garnered enough attention within the broader climbing community as one of the hardest boulders in Canada. Andy’s effort, vision and tactics to get this boulder done were very futuristic, especially when you consider what a busy guy he is: teacher, guidebook author, father, head route setter at Gneiss climbing, head of the Okanagan Bouldering Society, Rock the Blocs organizer; the list goes on. 

Andy White addressing the crowds of Rock the Blocs 2016, 

now the largest outdoor bouldering competition in Canada.

Photo: Caillum Smith, Preserved Light Photography

​I reached out to Andy to provide a little more insight into what it took to open this boulder.

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First off, can you give a bit of a timeline from when you were first shown the boulder to when you sent in 2015?

AW: Aaron Culver found it either that spring or the fall before and, yeah, him and Jay Duris were like you need to go have a look at this line. It sounded amazing, but I just never went and looked at it until April, so I guess it was early in the season. So, I went over, and I had a look and I was like, oh my god because, you know what it's like when you walk around the corner and see that thing. I didn't know that anything like that existed in the Boulderfields, at least that had holds. It was early to mid-April that I started working on it and I went all the way through till late August of that same year. There was a point in the middle of the season that I took a little bit of a break and climbed some other stuff because it got really hot. Then I came back for about 2 weeks of serious effort before I sent.

​If possible, can you put into perspective what the scene in the fields was looking like at that time? What were some of the significant boulders that had been done prior to that time and who were the key players developing them? 

AW: There was a scene at that point. Before 2012 there was not much happening. There was probably less than 10 of us in there. And that was guys that were still on and off sport climbing too, so a really small amount of dedicated boulderers. And then in 2012 we put out the little old paper guide book, the first real boulder guide for the fields, and then more people came.

Things kind of waned a little bit and then Clayton Arnall's first bouldering film about the Fields [see below] came out in 2014, I think, and that kind of opened it up a lot more. So that put the Fields on the map for way more people. So, we saw an influx at that point and there was a scene happening. Not a big scene, but definitely more than just the local group. But, of course, the same local guys were there at that time: Jay Duris obviously, and Braden Mccrea, Loic Markley and myself. I'm sure I'm forgetting more but I think both the Heywoods [Ryan and Ben] were there; there was a consistent crew developing boulders.

And the way it's been here since the beginning is that everybody just shares everything with each other, so, I had never seen that boulder and Jay and Aaron were like come and have a look at this cause we're never going climb it. That was probably the best gift I'd ever been given. That was also the year Terry Paholek and you guys [Will Barnes and Conrad McFarlane] came out and put up Nerf Roof (V12). So yeah, the scene was a scene at that point. People were coming and Nerf Roof going down kind of symbolized that.

The Fields - A Bouldering Film (2016 Update). Video: Clayton Arnall

What were some of the more significant boulders you had done prior to Gneiss Guy?

AW: Well there were a lot. Driven (V11) had been done, the Serenity lines had been done, Gaurdian (V8) had been done. In terms of the harder stuff, Driven Direct was maybe the first line that had been suggested as V12 in the fields. So, several V10’s, V11’s and what turned out to be V12’s had been done at that point but nothing quite at that level that Gneiss Guy was.

When you first saw the boulder, what was going through your head?

AW: What I’ve said to people in the past is that I don't know if I'll ever have that experience with a boulder again. To walk up to a climb for the first time and see that: perfect angle, perfect holds, something that seemed impossible and, for me, what was such a perfect boulder problem. Nothing else in the fields has really had the same effect. Asclepius [another V13 Andy put up in 2018] was close. That cave is incredible too, but no, I don't know if I'll ever see it again.

When you started actually trying the boulder, what were your initial impressions? Did you think it was going to be doable at the time or did you have any doubts?

AW: I started trying it basically as soon as I saw it and that was it. I was like I’ll sit on this thing for the rest of my life if I have to. The first day I think I had done all the moves except the crux move and I was throwing on the crux move so it seemed like a lot of progress on the first day. But that was replicated for the next 4 months when I was pretty much at the same point. 

What was the progression on the boulder like as you spent more and more time on it that season?

AW: So originally the upper hold was 2 inches higher [before a slight breakage]. I was throwing about 6 inches below that hold and I didn't know if it was possible. Then when the crux-hold broke and came down a bit, I was getting a lot closer to it and it seemed possible all of a sudden. I just didn't know exactly how hard it was going to be. 

How much time passed from when you weren’t sure if the move was possible to when you finally knew it was possible for you?

AW: Almost exactly four months, so basically the entire time I was working the problem. I only really needed a break from it when it got really hot because it was getting to the point where I wasn’t doing as well as I was previously when it wasn't as hot. Also, for me it was key to get a thumb wrap on the lower crux hold and when it started getting to the point where it was too hot to get that thumb wrap I just felt like I needed a break.
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Andy on one of his many difficult variations on the Serenity boulder. Photo: Clayton Arnall

I know the mental side of projecting can come with lots of ups and downs. How was this process for you? Did you ever lose your cool or were you able to stay even keeled throughout this process?

AW: Mentally, I feel like there came a point with that boulder where I started to change the way I climb a bit because I knew this was next level for me and maybe next level for the Fields. I was stubborn, and I think that's okay because it allowed me to get my ass kicked on it for 4 months without really being too worried about it. So, I wasn't really feeling any pressure to send. I felt like I was just so involved and amazed at that problem that whatever it threw at me was awesome. I enjoyed the whole process on it.

How about any specific training tactics? Did you train outside of just climbing on it to prepare for the boulder or was just climbing on it enough?

AW: I did put up a simulator problem on my home wall. The wall isn't the same angle, but I did put on a volume to kick it back bit. That prior winter I had trained a fair amount but I didn't specifically train for that problem. I think I just needed to be climbing on the problem because that one move needed the time to learn. It's such an involved one move that you have to put the time in. So, I think it came down to getting stronger on that move but also putting in the time to understanding it as well. 

So, I understand that, because the crux move on Gneiss Guy was so hard to work, you actually developed a new tactic specifically to help in learning that move. Do you mind walking us through that?

AW: That one move was so hard that I worked it almost backwards from sticking it with very little swing. To do that, I'd have my body set up as if I was doing the throw, but I had my right foot on the ground closer to the hold so that when I popped I learned to catch that hold and push in with my left foot and hold the swing.

Over the next 4 months I gradually moved my right foot down closer to the wall where it was steeper, to the point where my right foot wasn't really helping me anymore. This taught me how to stick that move so that when the time came and I got back to the problem after my break in August, and it was cool enough to get the thumb wrap on the left hand again, I was now throwing with my right foot on the wall and I was able to finally stick that move. It was a long process to build up the body mechanics for that move, though, and the strength to do it.

Braden Mccrea practicing the crux move on Gneiss Guy. Photo: Braden Mccrea

When you finally knew you could do the boulder, did you feel a lot of pressure? If so, how did that pressure affect your climbing and how did you deal with it?
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AW: Yeah, I guess there was a bit of pressure. But, because it was such an amazing line, I really enjoyed the process. I don't mind getting my ass kicked for months on end, but I also knew I was going back to work. When I go back to work it gets so busy so fast that I knew I might not be in the same shape two weeks from then, so I did feel that I had about a week where I had a good chance of getting it and after that I might lose the strength to do it. So, I did feel a bit of pressure. Also, once it cooled down after the heat of summer everything felt really good, so it did feel like there was a bit of pressure to execute. But I was so in love with that climb that I was still enjoying the process and the success; seeing progress was enough at that time. But in the back of my head I knew I was going back to work so the pressure was there.

When you finally sent it, how did it feel? I know a lot of long-term projects can feel easy, almost anti-climactic, when you finally send. Was this the case for Gneiss Guy?

AW: I knew that was the hardest climb I'd ever done, so this was something different. I'd never put that much effort into one climb and I'd never done that hard of a single move. So, in terms of difficulty, I knew it was the hardest thing I'd done but didn't really know what that meant. At the time we were grading things without really having much else to compare to.

After having Cedar [Andy’s son], I hadn't traveled a lot in the recent years before, so I hadn't gone elsewhere to test those grades out. And in retrospect, I just threw V12 at it because the only other thing that had a grade on it at that level was Driven Direct, and Gneiss Guy was way harder than that. But that was all I knew; it felt like the hardest thing I'd done and to this day I think that move is the hardest single move I've done.

Andy White on another one of his first ascents, Driven (V11). Photo: Andy White

I know it’s hard to drop a high grade, especially something harder than you've climbed before, on a first ascent. And the fact that there wasn’t a lot to compare it to at the time must have made it even harder. What triggered the eventual upgrade of Gneiss Guy to V13 after you originally graded it V12?

AW: I gave it the original grade of V12 because I never really thought I’d climb V12, and nothing else in the fields other than Driven Direct had been called V12. So, we didn't really have a firm grasp on what that grade meant. I’d traveled a lot as well but hadn’t travelled enough to know what V12 really meant. Because it was harder than anything else I'd climbed I was like okay it's got to be V12 because there's no way we could climb V13.

Since then, however, we've obviously put up a lot of stuff at the V12 grade and now there's quite a few V13's as well and Gneiss Guy still stands as the hardest one of that whole bunch. That's why it got upgraded. The other thing was that it had seen attempts by some really strong climbers, but nobody has really gotten close to that move. And these guys are climbing V14 in some places. Other guys were getting on and throwing but nobody was really close to sticking that move. So, all that combined led us to call it V13. Because we don't really know what anything harder really feels like [laughing]! So I don't know, I haven't tried V14 anywhere else so I really don't know if it is in that range, but it seems like if there's a contender for V14 in the Boulderfields this could be it.

Another quality Andy White first ascent, I've Got 99 Problems, but a Pinch Ain't One (V8). Photo: Clayton Arnall

You seem to be gaining a lot of momentum since your send of Gneiss Guy with no signs of slowing down. How do the harder boulders that you’ve been putting up since then stack up compared to Gneiss Guy in terms of difficulty or quality?
 
AW: Slippery When Wet low (V13) seems quite hard, the higher start at V12 I think has been pretty well confirmed and the low amps it up quite a bit, and hasn't been that close to being repeated [Note that these problems recently broke and are now even harder]. Jay has put some time into it and he's strong as hell so that one seems pretty solid at that grade. Asclepius (V13) has seen a bit of work from someone quite strong and seems pretty good at that grade. I've put up a couple others that seem comparable and I have been able to repeat some harder problems in other climbing areas, but Gneiss Guy seems to be on another level. I haven't touched anything in those grades with a move comparable to the crux of Gneiss Guy. The thing is that all the other problems in that range are workable, whereas Gneiss Guy is essentially that one really hard move, and it seems like you're either strong enough to do it or you aren't.

Is there anything else you’d like to share about the process that stands out to you as you reflect back on it?

AW: It was a change in climbing for me. It showed me a different level of climbing was possible and, if I worked hard enough, I could do something that hard. It was almost an enlightening moment for me with that climb. Also, I feel like it further legitimized the Okanagan, and especially the Boulderfields, as world class, and that line exemplifies that. Steep, perfect edges, everything you think about when you think about Boulderfields climbing; that's it.

I experienced a mini-depression after finishing that climb because I had finished this problem that I never thought I could do, and I didn't think I could ever climb anything amazing like that again. And I still haven't to this day. After that there was this massive emotional release. I've found some beautiful lines but still nothing like Gneiss Guy. So, it was cool, it was something that pushed the scene at that time and changed my climbing completely.

Another angle of Gneiss Guy, it's steep! Photo: Andy White

Now that we’ve thrown all this information out there, do you think Gneiss Guy will ever get a repeat?

AW: I've been around long enough now to know that, we've always been like: we're going to put out this new guidebook and all these strong people are going to come and they're going to finally climb all these things. Well, some strong people have come, but they don't really come to climb the hardest lines. And then Clayton's video comes out in 2014 and we're like: “they're all going to come”, and they do come but they're only here for a day or two and they're not trying the hardest problems.

I think it will get repeated one day, but it's going to either take someone who's at the highest level strong to do it quickly or someone who's willing to sit on it for a long period of time and put the work into it. I really hope it gets repeated though.

One of the most exciting things for me has been watching you guys climbing on it [Braden McCrea, Will Barnes], I've been getting video updates daily of you guys trying it. It's just nice to see other people trying it because it’s been sitting there for so long and nobody's been able to do much with it.

While we're on that note, I thought it might be fun to throw out some challenges to folks who could potentially repeat Gneiss Guy. Do you want to throw out a challenge to anybody specific?

AW: I think Puccio needs to come do that thing. Seems like for her it might be a good fit. Jesse Evans just finished Teacup [V13, Leavenworth, WA]; he's climbing like a maniac, it would be good to see him up here. Nalle Hukkataival; if someone's going do it, he'd be the one. Not only that but it seems like the Boulderfields in general would be the place for him. There's so much for him that's yet undone, all the highballs and the new project you [Will Barnes], cleaned up, [referring to a new project that will almost certainly be the hardest in the Fields by a long shot if done]. Him and Daniel Woods would be a contender as well.

While we’re at it I'm gonna throw it out there that Josh Muller needs to get out here to do it.

AW: I showed him, and he seemed pretty into it. He'd do well with a lot of the hard boulders here. But if there's a guy to do Gneiss Guy in Canada, maybe it's him.

He's one of the few people that knows it exists that climbs at that level. I think that's a big part of the problem with Gneiss Guy is just that a lot of people don't even know it exists. That's what made me want to get this project going in the first place, is that, if you look out there on the internet, all you can find is a little blurb on Gripped or Squamish Climbing Magazine that doesn't really do the problem justice. 

AW: Yeah we need to throw it out to Muller and Sean McColl as well, I'd love to see Tim Doyle back out here, Paul Nadler as well. Maybe we should start a Boulderfields bounty, offer a reward to people if they can send some of these problems. Maybe that's what it would take to finally get that caliber of climber out here more.

Finally, would you like to plug any sponsors or events that are coming up?  

AW: Gneiss Climbing, Flashed, Mad Rock, Outside All Day, those are my main sponsors and they're awesome. They just support the whole scene here, all of them, and they support me personally. They don't expect a lot and you just want to work your ass off for them as a result.

​Thanks for your time Andy, this was really fun.

AW: My pleasure. I hope someone actually reads this and gets psyched to come out and put some time into it.

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